From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:24:56 EDT Archived: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:40:29 -0400 Subject: MJ-12 Redux [was: Shostak's Search Shift?] >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 04:33:22 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Shostak's Search Shift? >>From: J. Maynard Gelinas <j.maynard.gelinas.nul> >>To: post.nul >>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:11:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Shostak's Search Shift? >>Hi David; Stanton, >>Thank you both for your responses. My reply is once again combined >>into a single message to you both: <snip> >I would certainly acknowledge that there are many people on this >List and elsewhere claiming that the EBD, CT, TF items are >fraudulent. I believe I have dealt with all their arguments. I >keep asking for refutations of my refutations. All I get is >research by proclamation. "They are obvious frauds". I wish they >would add "because A,B,C... which with STF hasn't dealt". >I am off to a conference in Strasbourg... Back Monday. >I won't hold my breath. Stan, List, All - I can't just let this go unchallenged. The consensus is that MJ-12 is a hoax. Not a government disinformation campaign, not something designed to keep us guessing and chasing phantoms, but something created and designed to propel specific people back into the spotlight. Or, as has been suggested by one of those who released it into the world, to fool those who had knowledge of the Roswell crash into revealing information that was, and is, classified. Although Stan attempts to shout down those of us who do not accept MJ-12 as authentic by suggesting that he has answered all objections to MJ-12, he has done so only in his own mind. He has not explained the lack of provenance, which contrary to what he has said to me, is not an indicator of its authenticity but is predictive of hoax. Those who have researched the type style of the various components of MJ-12 (the Truman memo) say that it was created on a typewriter that did not exist in 1952. This is based, not on just a comparison of the upper and lower case letters, but on the various numbers and symbols, done with the complete drawings and specifications from the factory. It is evidence that the typewriter did not exist in 1952... And yes, I know he will say that Peter Tytell has not issued a formal written report but will not remember to say that it was he who sent the material to Tytell in the first place. I will note here that the information on the EBD is the state of the investigation of crashed saucers in 1982 or 1983 and not what it is today. This provides us with a clue as to when the document was created and that is not 1952. I will note, though Stan will deny it, Bill Moore said, in the early 1980s, that he was thinking of creating a Roswell document to shake things loose. Moore said this to a number of people and it has been widely reported. Then, the MJ-12 documents arrive at the home of Moore's friend who was not well known in the UFO community. It is interesting that here is a document that was created to brief the President-Elect but is incomplete. It mentions nothing about the Plains of San Agustin or Aztec, two of the crashes that are now said to be real. There is no reasonable explanation for these two events to be ignored if MJ-12 is real and those events are real... but remember, in the early 80s almost no one believed Aztec to be anything other than a hoax and Bill Moore knew that the only connection to the Plains was the rather vague information attributed to Fleck Danley. The Barney Barnett diary (or actually the diary kept by Ruth Barnett) has nothing, absolutely nothing, to suggest that Barney saw anything on the Plains, or that he was out on the Plains on the right days. And we have Herbert Dick, who was clearly on the Plains, in a position to see any UFO crash there (he arrived on July 1 according to a letter he sent to a colleague in late 1947) but reported nothing. But by the early 1980s, Bill Moore, among others, were questioning the validity of suggesting that Barnett's story had anything to do with July 1947. So, the MJ-12 documents mention nothing about either the Plains or Aztec because, in the early 1980s many knew that those two events were not well documented. Stan will say that I said I rejected MJ-12 because Admiral Hillenkoetter got his rank wrong. I have told Stan this really isn't important, though Stan has yet to find a document on which Hillenkoetter got his rank wrong. Rather than address the real issues, he'll attempt to divert the conversation to these other points. I will say that no one has ever found a document, an authentic document referring to MJ-12 in the 25 years since these were announced. The Cutler-Twining Memo, found in the National Archives was clearly planted there, something that Stan will tell you. But if the document was planted, and there is again, no provenance, then it does nothing to validate MJ-12. And that's where we are today. There is nothing that validates MJ- 12. And the information we do have suggests that MJ-12 is a hoax. Yes, I know that Stan will say that we have no evidence that Bill Moore (and Richard Doty) were behind the MJ-12 documents, but there are some good clues. The dating format used by Moore, but not the US military or the US government is on them. Yes, it is used in Europe and in NATO, but those arguments are irrelevant. Normally, I don't get involved in these discussions because they turn out the same way. But sometimes I just don't want to let Stan get away with his proclamations about the validity of MJ-12. I am surprised that he continues to defend MJ-12 when even Bill Moore says that he finds many of those documents to be of dubious provenance. The thing is, no matter how often you argue for the authenticity of MJ-12, it doesn't make it so. You need to have evidence and there is precious little of that for MJ-12. For a more comprehensive look at some of this, please go to www.kevinrandle.blogspot.com. So, let the game begin. KRandle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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