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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Sep > Sep 27

Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

From: Robert Powell <rpowell.nul>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:33:00 -0500
Archived: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 06:42:16 -0400
Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>From: Martin Shough<parcellular.nul>
>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:00:51 +0100
>Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>>From: Ray Dickenson<r.dickenson.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:32:35 +0100
>>Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>>>From: Albert Baier<albertgbaier.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<post.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:02:38 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>There's been a lot of hysterical gee-whizzery in the media to
>the effect that "Einstein was wrong" and we'll have to tear up
>all the text books and start again. In fact superluminal or
>tachyonic (tachyon = faster than light particle) neutrinos is an
>idea that has been around in theory for many decades. There have
>even been previous experimental results hinting at it, including
>anomalous neutrino pulses arriving before the photons from
>supernovae, and similar advanced pulses seen in Fermilab
>experiments in 2007. The idea has had loads of attention from
>lots of serious people. Yet physics (last time I looked) is
>still here.

I agree Martin. One cannot expect the media to do proper
reporting of political events, UFOs, or anything else. I have
even less confidence in their reports on scientific papers. They
do seem to make stellar reports on Royal Weddings and the like.

>So, if tachyonic neutrinos are not a new concept, why the fuss?
>The real issue is not about exceeding the speed of light as
>such, nor is it even about the possibility of detecting them. It
>is about the possibility of causality violations that could
>theoretically arise if the particles can be used to send
>information, as in the much-discussed "tachyonic antitelephone"
>thought experiment whereby a signal is sent back in time. Even
>if superluminal neutrinos are detectable in the CERN conditions
>it may yet be the case that there is a sort of cosmic censorship
>going on, which somehow prevents information being transferred
>and so preserves causality on the light cone, as happens all the
>time (so far as anyone yet knows) with "instantaneous" nonlocal
>entanglement in quantum theory.

Causality as it relates to the quantum world is a fascinating
topic. I believe causality can be broken without exceeding the
speed of light. Instantaneous reactions of entangled photons
could be considered a breakdown of causality. It is somewhat
similar to one twin in the U.S. being killed by a car and his
twin vacationing in England also dies. Not much causality there.
One could also argue that causality also ends when an object
reaches the speed of light. Since time reaches zero at light
velocity, there is no way to have causality without the passage
of time.

>If you think about it the situation is analogous: the very tiny
>superluminal margin is not found from simply timing individual
>particles but is calculated by a very complicated statistical
>analysis done after the fact on distributed bursts of many
>detections, and most importantly the reference frame of
>measurement includes both emitter and detector with everything
>callibrated and locked together by GPS and atomic clocks. This
>reference frame is a local frame, i.e. it is made of light-speed
>signals. To determine the neutrino time of flight crudely
>speaking requires requires information to be sent separately at
>light speed from A to B where a comparison is made afterwards.

The other part of the experiment that I wonder about is the
spontaneous conversion of neutrinos from one type to another.
Sometimes a tau neutrino becomes a muon neutrino and vice versa.
Perhaps that oscillation between types of neutrinos results in
some type of entangled phenomena that results in a boost to the
apparent speed of the neutrino distribution.

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