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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Apr > Apr 16

Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary

From: Eugene Frison <cthulhu_calls.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:57:27 -0500
Archived: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 06:02:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary


>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 18:43:16 +0100
>Subject: Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary

>>From: William Treurniet <wtreurniet.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:52:26 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary

>>The inability of scientists to recognize the limitations of
>>their own knowledge, etc. is what I remember from many of Ray's
>>contributions. I think you may be misrepresenting him a bit. Is
>>this a manifestation of inattentional blindness? Indirect
>>realism?

>Hello William,

>My interests are facts, and theories which might explain those
>facts, bearing in mind that no theory can be `proven': a viable
>theory merely fits all the presently known facts - without
>omission.

>Representative facts about psychiatry and the behaviour of
>psychiatrists are at:

>http://www.ufoupdateslist.com/2012/jan/m17-006.shtml

>Subject: Re: Participation In Psychology Dissertation Study

>and at:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

>So, after presenting the known facts and personal theoretical
>conclusions (if any), any arguments with those whose over-riding
>beliefs compel them to ignore or misrepresent known facts would
>be non-productive - as expressed here:

>www.perceptions.couk.com/warn.html#research3


>Cheers

>Ray D

>BTW - will admit to the occasional provocative presentation, to
>flush out 'skepti-bunkers' and 'true believers' alike.

Ray,

You really need to get this in proper perspective!

The problem is with psychiatrists and psychologists, not with
the basic tenets of psychiatry and psychology. We are talking
apples and oranges here.

Let's take an example. Schizophrenia is real. It exists! It
doesn't usually get better on its own. If you doubt this, then I
sure wish you could talk to my friend Lilly who, at a very early
age, was heinously murdered by another woman (who was later
diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic) while making a call from a
telephone booth on a street in Dominion, Nova Scotia. She was
literally hacked to death - there were close to a hundred stab
wounds - by the woman she didn't even know and who believed that
Lilly was beaming electromagnetic signals at her in her
apartment from the telephone booth. The firemen had to hose the
area down to get rid of the blood. A motorist who stopped in an
attempt to help Lilly could do nothing against the savage frenzy
of her attacker.

This same sick woman a long time later was found to have in her
possession while in the Nova Scotia Hospital (a mental hospital
in Dartmouth, NS) a long list of people who she was going to
kill when she returned to Cape Breton - this despite intensive
treatment for her condition.

Schizophenia is believed to have an actual physical cause, that
is, it is the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain. This
is a tenet of psychiatry and probably quite accurate.

If someone feigns psychotic symptoms and gets diagnosed as
psychotic then can the psychiatrist who diagnosed same be
blamed. Since these conditions usually don't get better on their
own, can the psychiatrist be blamed for believing weeks later
that the person is still ill despite a lack of symptoms.

As to other patients being able to pick out fake patients better
than the doctors or staff, that is to be expected. The doctors
and even the staff in these institutions don't spend anywhere
near the amount of time interacting with each patient as the
other patients do, nor is the interaction usually as close.

These experiments point out serious problems in these fields;
they don't invalidate the basic tenets that they hold. Most of
these problems stem from the people who are making the decisions
(because these people are not perfect and are prone to
subjective interpretation of what they have before them) not
because of flawed tenets espoused by these fields. These
experiments cannot be used to support a sweeping dismissal of
psychiatry and psychology. They also cannot be used as a basis
to call all psychologists and psychiatrists criminals, liars or
fools.

Psychiatrists and psychologists are people - people who aren't
perfect, who have flawed reasoning at times, and who have a
flawed perception process. They make mistakes! Lots of them!
Just because people make misinterpretations of the data before
them doesn't invalidate the basic tenets of psychology and
psychiatry. Can you begin to make this distinction and
understand this?

A basic tenet of psychology is that the human perception process
is mostly psychological and produces flawed results - that it is
subjective and cannot be trusted to give an accurate
representation of reality. I would suggest that the several
experiments you are so fond of using to discredit psychology
actually prove this basic tenet. These experiments prove that
the perceptions of the psychologists and psychiatrists are
subjective, prone to error, and cannot be trusted - and this
proves psychology is correct when it comes to what it holds to
be true regarding the human perception process.

On a very superficial level these experiments indicate there are
problems in the fields of psychiatry and psychology. On a much
deeper level they prove that these fields have some accurate
insights into the human being and are thus very worthwhile.

Whether intentional or not, it is you who are guilty of
misrepresenting known facts and of ignoring - or of being
completely ignorant - of a great many relevant other ones.


Eugene Frison



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