From: Eugene Frison <cthulhu_calls.nul> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:57:27 -0500 Archived: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 06:02:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary >From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul> >To: <post.nul> >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 18:43:16 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary >>From: William Treurniet <wtreurniet.nul> >>To: post.nul >>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:52:26 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Ufology And Psychiatry - Summary >>The inability of scientists to recognize the limitations of >>their own knowledge, etc. is what I remember from many of Ray's >>contributions. I think you may be misrepresenting him a bit. Is >>this a manifestation of inattentional blindness? Indirect >>realism? >Hello William, >My interests are facts, and theories which might explain those >facts, bearing in mind that no theory can be `proven': a viable >theory merely fits all the presently known facts - without >omission. >Representative facts about psychiatry and the behaviour of >psychiatrists are at: >http://www.ufoupdateslist.com/2012/jan/m17-006.shtml >Subject: Re: Participation In Psychology Dissertation Study >and at: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment >So, after presenting the known facts and personal theoretical >conclusions (if any), any arguments with those whose over-riding >beliefs compel them to ignore or misrepresent known facts would >be non-productive - as expressed here: >www.perceptions.couk.com/warn.html#research3 >Cheers >Ray D >BTW - will admit to the occasional provocative presentation, to >flush out 'skepti-bunkers' and 'true believers' alike. Ray, You really need to get this in proper perspective! The problem is with psychiatrists and psychologists, not with the basic tenets of psychiatry and psychology. We are talking apples and oranges here. Let's take an example. Schizophrenia is real. It exists! It doesn't usually get better on its own. If you doubt this, then I sure wish you could talk to my friend Lilly who, at a very early age, was heinously murdered by another woman (who was later diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic) while making a call from a telephone booth on a street in Dominion, Nova Scotia. She was literally hacked to death - there were close to a hundred stab wounds - by the woman she didn't even know and who believed that Lilly was beaming electromagnetic signals at her in her apartment from the telephone booth. The firemen had to hose the area down to get rid of the blood. A motorist who stopped in an attempt to help Lilly could do nothing against the savage frenzy of her attacker. This same sick woman a long time later was found to have in her possession while in the Nova Scotia Hospital (a mental hospital in Dartmouth, NS) a long list of people who she was going to kill when she returned to Cape Breton - this despite intensive treatment for her condition. Schizophenia is believed to have an actual physical cause, that is, it is the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain. This is a tenet of psychiatry and probably quite accurate. If someone feigns psychotic symptoms and gets diagnosed as psychotic then can the psychiatrist who diagnosed same be blamed. Since these conditions usually don't get better on their own, can the psychiatrist be blamed for believing weeks later that the person is still ill despite a lack of symptoms. As to other patients being able to pick out fake patients better than the doctors or staff, that is to be expected. The doctors and even the staff in these institutions don't spend anywhere near the amount of time interacting with each patient as the other patients do, nor is the interaction usually as close. These experiments point out serious problems in these fields; they don't invalidate the basic tenets that they hold. Most of these problems stem from the people who are making the decisions (because these people are not perfect and are prone to subjective interpretation of what they have before them) not because of flawed tenets espoused by these fields. These experiments cannot be used to support a sweeping dismissal of psychiatry and psychology. They also cannot be used as a basis to call all psychologists and psychiatrists criminals, liars or fools. Psychiatrists and psychologists are people - people who aren't perfect, who have flawed reasoning at times, and who have a flawed perception process. They make mistakes! Lots of them! Just because people make misinterpretations of the data before them doesn't invalidate the basic tenets of psychology and psychiatry. Can you begin to make this distinction and understand this? A basic tenet of psychology is that the human perception process is mostly psychological and produces flawed results - that it is subjective and cannot be trusted to give an accurate representation of reality. I would suggest that the several experiments you are so fond of using to discredit psychology actually prove this basic tenet. These experiments prove that the perceptions of the psychologists and psychiatrists are subjective, prone to error, and cannot be trusted - and this proves psychology is correct when it comes to what it holds to be true regarding the human perception process. On a very superficial level these experiments indicate there are problems in the fields of psychiatry and psychology. On a much deeper level they prove that these fields have some accurate insights into the human being and are thus very worthwhile. Whether intentional or not, it is you who are guilty of misrepresenting known facts and of ignoring - or of being completely ignorant - of a great many relevant other ones. Eugene Frison Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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