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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Aug > Aug 13

Re: Socorro Again

From: Viktor Golubic <Diverge247.nul>
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:59:31 -0400 (EDT)
Archived: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 06:25:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Socorro Again

>From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:08:19 +0100
>Subject: Re: Socorro Again

>>From: Michael Tarbell <mtarbell.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:00:00 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Socorro Again

>>>From: Martin Shough<parcellular.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 11:30:10 +0100
>>>Subject: Socorro Again

>>>More from Anthony Bragalia on the Colgate letter (and a new
>>>letter), candle-balloons etc.

>>>UFO Chronicles

>>>New Details On World-Famous UFO Hoax Now Revealed


>>Hi Martin,

>>As per Tony Bragalia's previous missives on Socorro, I find a
>>hyperbolic title followed by a rather thin assemblage of hand-
>>waving, name-dropping, and self-congratulation. A giant Chinese
>>lantern, seriously? And Zamora would not have immediately
>>noticed this thing being buffeted by the stiff wind during the
>>pre-launch phase on the ground?

>>If you follow the "Continue Reading..." link to his blog site,
>>you'll see David Rudiak essentially grind him to dust in the
>>comments, so I'll avoid piling-on here.

>>I don't rule out a hoax at Socorro (unless it involves a Chinese
>>lantern), but I'm astonished that Tony apparently sincerely
>>believes that these cryptic email mutterings from "perhaps the
>>greatest living physicist in the word [sic]" Stirling Colgate,
>>along with gratuitous references to Linus Pauling (whose lack of
>>any further comment/query about Socorro is presented as
>>_confirmation_ of Colgate's claim!), are somehow sufficient to
>>blow this case completely out of the water.

>I agree entirely, Mike. When this story first appeared several
>years ago I thought it was a disingenuous tissue of hearsay and
>speculation, and said so on this List. Now, like you, I'm sure
>of it.

To all:

Unfortunately, the explanation is completely plausible and
within the limitations of observation and psychological impact.
Actual ground investigation work with witnesses will quickly
teach anyone here to abandon a certain level of perceived
noncompliance between witness accounts and the objects they
observe. Certainly, I'm somewhat paused in going completely
forward until the pranksters come forward to fill in more of the
details. But, it's conceivable they can be tracked down rather

I think proper perspective on the contradictory wind direction
can be gained from the work of firefighters, here [.pdf]:


"The winds aloft may be greatly different in speed and direction
from the surface winds."

That the object floated consistently low over a given period of
time encourages one wind regime over another. In this case
possible surface wind dominance over winds aloft direction. That
the object eventually took off in another direction or even
upward is consistent with these various regime changes as a
function of altitude.

That the object floated horizontally is completely plausible
given that this presumed prank-object had a payload. I've made
numerous candle driven balloons and this is completely
consistent with their behavior. They can move quite quickly as
well: Such estimates or effects are amplified since one judges
speed based on passage over near by objects or surfaces as
opposed to far away reference points.

Estimates on distance are also very difficult and problematic.
Often it can be overestimated by a factor of 2 or 3 even by
experienced observers. And, that he had no experience with the
object in question only compounds or fragments this perceptual

I remain open minded enough to entertain the reality of this
explanation. But, the case may best be suited for a pro and con
approach so that all readers come away with the full breadth of
the various argument points, physical attributes, and sources.


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