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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Aug > Aug 14

Re: Socorro Again

From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:32:21 +0100
Archived: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 09:06:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Socorro Again

>From: Herb Taylor <herbufo.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Socorro Again

>>From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:45:31 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Socorro Again

>>A hoax of this or a similar type using a balloon may or may not
>>be physically/psychologically plausible, that is not by any
>>means a new issue. It has been debated before, for many years,
>>as you know.

>>What _is_ a new issue is Bragalia's claim of evidence
>>effectively proving that such a hoax occurred. This is the point
>>under discussion.

>>I repeat that in my opinion this evidence is inflated, a balloon
>>in fact, made of very thin hearsay and launched with hot air. As
>>you correctly say, if some more substantial evidence of this
>>hoax comes to light it will need to be dealt with.

>>A closer USAF investigation of the site revealed a fair amount of
>>charred particles mixed with dirt, and some charred carboard was also

>In this fascinating discussion of the purported hoax explanation
>for Socorro, this particular sentence reaches out and grabs you.
>At least, it did for me, though apparently not for you.  The
>striking nature of this particular sentence from an official
>USAF report would appear to provide some real substance for the
>statements made by Dr. Stirling Colgate.

Hi Herb

I assume you are referring to this allegation of Bragalia's

"Little-known official reports at the time were surfaced that
showed the presence of charred cardboard, footprints and
evidence of pyrotechnic ignition at the UFO site."

1) The official reports are not "little known" to anybody who
has read the BB file or followed the case for years.

2) The phrases "the presence of charred cardboard . . . AND
evidence of pyrotechnic ignition" is exactly the kind of
disingenuous manipulation that I complained about. In fact
Bragalia's "evidence of pyrotechnic ignition" IS "the presence
of charred cardboard".

3) You can read the BB file as well as I can, so you will have
checked this out and discovered that the charred cardboard was
found by Hynek and described by him in detail in part of a
densely-typed 5-page letter to Menzel and Boyd as well as on p.7
of his Air Force 'Report on the Trip to Socorro'.

4) you can see that neither Hynek nor anyone else (except Menzel
until Hynek sent him a sample) thought this scrap of charred
cardboard was significant; that Hynek said it was identical to
hundreds of pieces of old corrugated packing cardboard that were
blown from the nearby town dump and got lodged under bushes all
over the area.

5) The presence of "charred particles" in the dirt is not to my
mind especially astonishing given that there had been blatantly
obvious charring of the shrubs at the site. If you have found
information I'm unaware of indicating that these charred
particles were somehow peculiar or suspicious please can you
point me to the source.

6) Note that Hynek spends quite a lot of time going over the
implications of hoax theories essentially the same as the
Bragalia one, which of course had been discussed almost from day
one. This material would repay careful
reading again

>the nature of the charred bushes found at the site would seem to
>mimic the presence of pyrotechnics, seemingly another point of
>substance for the statements made by Dr. Colgate.

"Mimic the presence of pyrotechnics"? Please explain this
curious phrase. Do you mean that _burning_ indicates the
presence of _fire_ perhaps? Please also explain how the absence
of any unusual combustive chemicals in the burned vegetation
"mimics the presence of pyrotechnics"

Do you still really think this adds up to "real substance for
the statements made by Dr. Stirling Colgate"?

Martin Shough

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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