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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Jul > Jul 12

Re: Types Of Aliens To Expect?

From: Vincent Boudreau <vincentboudreau.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:43:14 -0400
Archived: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 05:54:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Types Of Aliens To Expect?

>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul
>To: post.nul
>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:12:24 -0500
>Subject: Re: Types Of Aliens To Expect?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul
>>To: <post.nul
>>Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:25:40 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Types Of Aliens To Expect?


>>I think there's a `Darwin industry' today for much the same
>>reason as there was a `Newton industry' in the 18th Cent. That
>>is, for nationalistic motives, the English establishment wanted
>>a science hero: and in both cases they chose the bigot and
>>plagiarist with the _wrong_ idea, which happened to suit the
>>establishment's predilections.

>This sort of foolishness, I'm afraid, says more about Ray's
>sense of moral entitlement - intellectual naivete, too - than it
>does about the complexities a sophisticated student of history
>encounters when he or she deals with persons who lived in
>another time and culture, when issues that appear self-evident
>to us were barely imaginable (if that) to those who resided in
>the different country that is the past.  Examples that come to
>mind are many. These will suffice:


Hello Ray, Jerry and List,

Aside from the personal stuff which tend to drag down the
discourse, this is a very interesting discussion.

Both of you raise very good points.

What is to say about your divergence: do you differ on your
interpretations of the facts or on the judgements you pass on

I think you, Jerry, have a point when you say that we cannot
judge a historical character through our contemporary eyes. I
think Ray has a point when he hints that many historical "stars"
where considered such for political reasons.

What I gather from all of this is that truth cannot rise without
conceding to a lie, e.g. you cannot hammer it, you can only milk
it and, to do so, you have to make heavy concessions to
political correctness.

If I am wrong in my assertion, I hope you will correct me with

May I throw in another point of view, maybe the proverbial
monkey wrench? I will take Abraham Lincoln as an example.

Contrary to the perceived American history, Lincoln was not
exactly the altruistic individual depicted. To make a long story
short: abolishing slavery became an issue because, in the North,
contrary to the South, the slaves weren't needed anymore
(keywords: tobacco, crash crops, North). Hence, the North
"freed" its slaves and posed as the good guys while pressure was
exerted on the South to do the same thing. Abolitionism served
only as a political tool in a civil economic war.

So much for Lincoln, the humanist: the consequences of the
abolishing slavery made things only worse for the slaves and the
path to Martin Luther King was one of despair and misery.

The point I am trying to make is that, as cynical as it may
appear, human society evolves accidentally through greed. I am
tempted to say that one cannot _pass judgement_ on history as
this judgment, in the end, has only the value of fashion.  But
even this view would be only fashion.

I can understand that Ray sees Darwin as a bigot. I understand
also that Jerry is appalled by this view. But, still, Jerry, in
your argumentation, you depict Hoover as an "obsessive racist".
Shouldn't Hoover have the same benefit of the doubt as Darwin?

And about Darwin, Ray, didn't the guy's ideas evolve over the
years. Was he writing the same things at the beginning of his
life and towards the end?

Which brings us ultimately to the question of moral stance: is
there some higher moral ground somewhere or is it all relative?

If you say it's relative, where would civilization go without a
moral compass?

But who's to hold the compass?

Vincent Boudreau

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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