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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Jun > Jun 2

Re: Dating Arnold

From: Don Ecsedy <don.nul>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 11:03:15 -0400 (EDT)
Archived: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 09:11:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Dating Arnold

>From: Michael Tarbell <mtarbell.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:29:18 -0600
>Subject: Dating Arnold [was: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told]

>>From: Martin Shough<parcellular.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 13:27:33 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

>>>From: Don Ecsedy<don.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<post.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 11:12:49 -0400 (EDT)
>>>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

>>>What is really of interest here - and correct me if I am wrong -
>>>but in 1947 all of the official statements and all the parties
>>>interviewed, including Arnold, said he had left for Tacoma on
>>>the 30th, not the 29th. It is only in The Coming Of The Saucers
>>>that Arnold says it was the 29th.

>>>So, where did the Air Force and the Navy get July 29th?

>>Excuse me for butting in, but this is an interesting point. I
>>hadn't noticed it before. You seem to be right, e.g. the FBI
>>interview report from SAC Butte does say that Arnold told him he
>>"left for Tacoma" on July 30, whereas Arnold's book gives July
>>29. Given that Arnold was writing several years later and was
>>not immune to other small date errors we should probably give
>>the benefit of the doubt to the near-contemporary documents.

>If you haven't already seen it, I highly recommend the ten-part
>series "The Positively True Story of Kenneth Arnold" at


>which goes into great detail about this and other
>'inconsistencies', including outright fabrications, in the
>Coming of the Saucers version of Arnold's involvement in Maury
>Island affair. And while I suspect most or all of these were due
>to Ray Palmer, I have distinct unease with Arnold's apparent
>complicity in their publication.


After several days of back and forth online comments with the
author of those articles, I came away with the sense the author
has... what's a good word for it?... an ideological distaste for
Arnold which determines his putting the worst possible
interpretation on anything Arnold wrote. Regarding Arnold's
telegram of August 31, 1947, to Springer asking if there was any
objection to him publishing an article, Arnold wrote:

"I have offer to sell my detailed account of an investigation of
flying disk that took place in Tacoma Washington July 29 thru
August 3rd... "

His opinion is that Arnold "was excited" when he wrote that.

When I pointed out the entry on Arnold in the AF "Analysis",
both in 1948 and 1949:

"h. On 29 July 1947, Kenneth Arnold, while flying near Tacoma,
Washington, reported a formation of flying objects. The sketch
of their shape corresponds closely to that shown in the
photographs made by Mr. Rhoads [sic]. On the same day, two U.S.
Air Force pilots at Hamilton Field reported two flying disks
trailing a P-80, following it toward Oakland, California."

He replied that dates are often wrong in these documents (and I
agree) and indicated other wrong dates, but he did not address
the issue of the confounding of the Cascades and Maury Island,
and, again, why the 29th of all possible wrong dates?

Both Smith and Arnold refer to Major Sander as S-2 at McChord
Field, while the AF, FBI, and the press refer to him as the
McChord PIO. The author's comment was Smith and Arnold seemed to
think anyone in uniform was military intelligence. At that
point, it didn't seem worth my time to ask what he thought a PIO
was doing in a field investigation of the deaths of two CIC
agents and the men they had spent their last remaining hours
with. I didn't address, as it seemed too far off-topic, other
officers involved in project saucer who seemd to wear several
hats, including public relations.

All the responses I was getting from him were along the
"plausibility" line that we are familiar with from inattentive
skeptics -- menzelization, hynekizing.

His comment regarding Arnold's story of being welcome at
Hamilton and being given prints of the Rhodes photographs was
that he could not imagine the AF wanting to have anything to do
with Arnold after Tacoma, much less invite him to Hamilton and
give him photographs. When I proved to him Arnold had the
photographs in 1950, he ended the conversation with:

"If you simply refuse to believe what was said by Capt. Smith,
Ted Morello, Paul Lantz, and -- ironically -- Arnold himself in
Fate magazine, then there's nothing further I'm willing to reply
(frankly, my time is limited and very valuable to me)."

Yet, I had never disputed those things with him, but I'd broken
the surface tension of his strawman 'Arnold' by proving
something in The Coming Of The Saucers which is unrelated to
either the Cascades or Tacoma. Arnold had told the truth about
something in that book. That he did so, and because the author
of the series could not acknowledge it, but danced away,
indicates to me he has a lot invested in doing a Project Grudge
on Arnold.

In light of the abobe, I question his stated objectivity and
lack of agenda.

In 1950, Arnold self-published The Flying Saucer As I Saw It.
In the pages I have seen, there are three reproductions of
photographic prints of the William A. Rhodes object. I don't
know if he had the fourth. Two of them were not available to the
public until declassification of PBB (they are not copied from
newspapers) and one of them has not been published elsewhere to
my knowledge. These are the prints that Bruce Macabbee said he
saw in an original of the Analysis pasted onto pages in the

They can be seen here, the last set of images:





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