From: Don Ecsedy <don.nul> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 11:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Archived: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 09:11:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Dating Arnold >From: Michael Tarbell <mtarbell.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:29:18 -0600 >Subject: Dating Arnold [was: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told] >>From: Martin Shough<parcellular.nul> >>To:<post.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 13:27:33 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told >>>From: Don Ecsedy<don.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<post.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 11:12:49 -0400 (EDT) >>>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told >>>What is really of interest here - and correct me if I am wrong - >>>but in 1947 all of the official statements and all the parties >>>interviewed, including Arnold, said he had left for Tacoma on >>>the 30th, not the 29th. It is only in The Coming Of The Saucers >>>that Arnold says it was the 29th. >>>So, where did the Air Force and the Navy get July 29th? >>Excuse me for butting in, but this is an interesting point. I >>hadn't noticed it before. You seem to be right, e.g. the FBI >>interview report from SAC Butte does say that Arnold told him he >>"left for Tacoma" on July 30, whereas Arnold's book gives July >>29. Given that Arnold was writing several years later and was >>not immune to other small date errors we should probably give >>the benefit of the doubt to the near-contemporary documents. >If you haven't already seen it, I highly recommend the ten-part >series "The Positively True Story of Kenneth Arnold" at >saturdaynightuforia.com, >http://tinyurl.com/cgtlk9b >which goes into great detail about this and other >'inconsistencies', including outright fabrications, in the >Coming of the Saucers version of Arnold's involvement in Maury >Island affair. And while I suspect most or all of these were due >to Ray Palmer, I have distinct unease with Arnold's apparent >complicity in their publication. >Mike After several days of back and forth online comments with the author of those articles, I came away with the sense the author has... what's a good word for it?... an ideological distaste for Arnold which determines his putting the worst possible interpretation on anything Arnold wrote. Regarding Arnold's telegram of August 31, 1947, to Springer asking if there was any objection to him publishing an article, Arnold wrote: "I have offer to sell my detailed account of an investigation of flying disk that took place in Tacoma Washington July 29 thru August 3rd... " His opinion is that Arnold "was excited" when he wrote that. When I pointed out the entry on Arnold in the AF "Analysis", both in 1948 and 1949: "h. On 29 July 1947, Kenneth Arnold, while flying near Tacoma, Washington, reported a formation of flying objects. The sketch of their shape corresponds closely to that shown in the photographs made by Mr. Rhoads [sic]. On the same day, two U.S. Air Force pilots at Hamilton Field reported two flying disks trailing a P-80, following it toward Oakland, California." He replied that dates are often wrong in these documents (and I agree) and indicated other wrong dates, but he did not address the issue of the confounding of the Cascades and Maury Island, and, again, why the 29th of all possible wrong dates? Both Smith and Arnold refer to Major Sander as S-2 at McChord Field, while the AF, FBI, and the press refer to him as the McChord PIO. The author's comment was Smith and Arnold seemed to think anyone in uniform was military intelligence. At that point, it didn't seem worth my time to ask what he thought a PIO was doing in a field investigation of the deaths of two CIC agents and the men they had spent their last remaining hours with. I didn't address, as it seemed too far off-topic, other officers involved in project saucer who seemd to wear several hats, including public relations. All the responses I was getting from him were along the "plausibility" line that we are familiar with from inattentive skeptics -- menzelization, hynekizing. His comment regarding Arnold's story of being welcome at Hamilton and being given prints of the Rhodes photographs was that he could not imagine the AF wanting to have anything to do with Arnold after Tacoma, much less invite him to Hamilton and give him photographs. When I proved to him Arnold had the photographs in 1950, he ended the conversation with: "If you simply refuse to believe what was said by Capt. Smith, Ted Morello, Paul Lantz, and -- ironically -- Arnold himself in Fate magazine, then there's nothing further I'm willing to reply (frankly, my time is limited and very valuable to me)." Yet, I had never disputed those things with him, but I'd broken the surface tension of his strawman 'Arnold' by proving something in The Coming Of The Saucers which is unrelated to either the Cascades or Tacoma. Arnold had told the truth about something in that book. That he did so, and because the author of the series could not acknowledge it, but danced away, indicates to me he has a lot invested in doing a Project Grudge on Arnold. In light of the abobe, I question his stated objectivity and lack of agenda. In 1950, Arnold self-published The Flying Saucer As I Saw It. In the pages I have seen, there are three reproductions of photographic prints of the William A. Rhodes object. I don't know if he had the fourth. Two of them were not available to the public until declassification of PBB (they are not copied from newspapers) and one of them has not been published elsewhere to my knowledge. These are the prints that Bruce Macabbee said he saw in an original of the Analysis pasted onto pages in the report. They can be seen here, the last set of images: http://www.foreshadower.net/rhodes-photographs/ Regards, Don http://www.foreshadower.net Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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