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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Jun > Jun 2

Re: Dating Arnold [was: Flying Saucers - The

From: Don Ecsedy <don.nul>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 16:02:51 -0400 (EDT)
Archived: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 09:31:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Dating Arnold [was: Flying Saucers - The

>From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 13:27:33 +0100
>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

>>From: Don Ecsedy <don.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 11:12:49 -0400 (EDT)
>>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told


>>So, we know this is not referring to Arnold's report of sighting
>>the amber or bronze colored small disks, but the Cascades
>>sighting of June 24, 1947.

>>What is really of interest here - and correct me if I am wrong -
>>but in 1947 all of the official statements and all the parties
>>interviewed, including Arnold, said he had left for Tacoma on
>>the 30th, not the 29th. It is only in The Coming of the Saucers
>>that Arnold says it was the 29th.

>>So, where did the Air Force and the Navy get July 29th?

>Hello Don

>Excuse me for butting in, but this is an interesting point. I
>hadn't noticed it before. You seem to be right, e.g. the FBI
>interview report from SAC Butte does say that Arnold told him he
>"left for Tacoma" on July 30, whereas Arnold's book gives July
>29. Given that Arnold was writing several years later and was
>not immune to other small date errors we should probably give
>the benefit of the doubt to the near-contemporary documents.

I do. However, if another July 29th reference turns up, I'm
going to have to consider it is a pattern rather than random
mistakes. We already have Arnold's telegram to Col. Springer of
August 31, 1947, as well as the Analysis.

>IMO this is made surer by the fact that, whichever day it was,
>he flew out very early (5:30 am he said), so early that he
>couldn't get fuel at Boise and would have to stop over at La
>Grande to top up (which he did) before going on via Chehalis to
>Tacoma. This was a significant fact for him in relation to the
>odd business of the Tacoma hotel room because it convinced him
>that nobody could have seen him leave Boise (and he had
>advertised no plan to do so). So this seems well-established.
>But he wrote a letter to Palmer (covering transmittal of a copy
>of his AF letter) dated July 29, when supposedly he would have
>been in the air en route to Tacoma. The flight to Tacoma took
>all day (even starting at 5:30 he didn't make Barry's Airport
>until dusk, he said) and would leave no time for typing or
>posting letters. So it would make sense that he wrote to Palmer
>from home on July 29 and left for Tacoma the next morning.

I haven't researched Tacoma. Please correct any mistakes I make.
I knew I'd have to, though, because I have been researching
Rhodes and there is a Tacoma 'sidebar' to it.

Did he write he made the decision while in Chehalis to go on to
Tacoma that night? In another post I've offered a different
reading of the mystery reservation at the Winthrop. Arnold made
the reservation himself when he first called the Winthrop. They
had a vacancy. He had been awake and flying since 5:30am, and
probably a bit disoriented (as well as dirty and hungry). It is
not simply his recollection that might be off, but the immediate
experience itself at the time didn't quite register with him.

>As for where the Analysis of Flying Object Incidents got July 29
>from, I suspect this is just a mistaken association :

>"On 29 July 1947, Kenneth Arnold, while flying near Tacoma,
>Washington, reported a formation of flying objects. The sketch
>of their shape corresponds closely to that shown in the
>photographs made by Mr. Rhoads. On the same day, two U.S. Air
>Force pilots at Hamilton Field reported two flying disks
>trailing a P-80, following it toward Oakland, California."

>I know of no drawing made by Arnold of the La Grande "ducks".
>This appears to refer to the June 24 sighting sketch, as you
>suggest, as does the reference to the Rhodes photos which we
>know were compared by Arnold to his objects. But that sighting
>was not "near Tacoma". However Tacoma was where the Rhodes photo
>was shown to Arnold by Brown & Davidson who came from Hamilton

Arnold was shown a sketch which, he wrote, Brown and Davidson
said was based on photos taken in Phoenix recently and kept at
Hamilton. Interestingly, Emil Smith to the FBI reports this as
Arnold being excited about a "freak disc" a woman in Phoenix had

>I suspect someone just misread the file (along with William
>Rhodes' name) and, having conceived a mistaken association with
>the Hamilton Field incident because of the Brown & Davidson
>connection and the near-miss date, bracketed a bogus reference
>to Arnold in with the Hamilton Field case of July 29, which was
>a significant Blue Book unknown (#69 in the final tally) and
>very influential inside ATIC at the time, as well as becoming a
>major public case (another at the same base on the previous day
>also made the papers).

>Martin Shough

It's quite a mash-up of three cases, Mt Ranier, Maury Island,
Hamilton Field, with a reference to a fourth case, Rhodes, and
putting us in mind of a fifth sighting, Arnold's small disks, as
well as the sighting at Hamilton the previous day, for 60 words.

The misspelling of Rhodes as Rhoads goes back to the first
record in the file, CIC agent Aldrich's report. The spelling
vanishes from the files until Ruppelt's time, but it is always
'Rhoads' in the Analysis. I think it is an example of a pattern,
and not random mistakes. The traces of earlier documents in
reports gives us an idea what records were available to that
person at that time.

Did the FBI or the AF take a statement from Arnold in August of
1947 about Tacoma? I was just browsing Wilcox's report. At the
bottom of page 7, it mentions Arnold, following a report on
Crisman and Dahl and a paragraph on the crash,

"A check of the records of the Winthrop Hotel in Tacoma,
Washington revealed that [   ] giving his address as [ ]
Mountain View Drive, Boise, Idaho rented room 502 from July
30th, 7:43 P.M. until..."

And flip to the next page and the entire paragraph is blacked
out, maybe ten lines, I'd guess. Then begins the material from
Emil Smith.

What could there have been following "...until" that required
that much india ink?



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