UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Jun > Jun 2

Re: Roswell & Flying Saucers

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 18:59:47 -0300
Archived: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:34:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell & Flying Saucers

>From: James Carrion <jcarrion.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 14:26:31 -0300
>Subject: Re: Roswell & Flying Saucers

>>From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:18:19 -0300
>>Subject: Roswell & Flying Saucers [was: The Greatest Lie...]

>>James, I really can't follow your reasoning. I think you are
>>starting with a false premise namely that the US was very
>>worried in 1947 about a Stalin attack.

>>_Not_ true.


>Please read the declassified Top Secret memo dated August 24,
>1946 from Vandenberg to Truman that I located in the Truman
>library to understand what was being discussed at the top re.
>fears of Soviet aggression. The fears were real and not imagined
>or contrived. Here's the link:

>http://tinyurl.com/7o72hnu [.pdf]


It seems to me that the 27 Sept. memo from Vandenberg negates
the fears expressed in the Sept. 24 memo. Certainly no great
fear of the Societs attacking the US immenintly. No atom bomb
,no long distance bombers no need for the wild disinfor- mation
program you suggest and have not provided any evidence for. As I
noted the bomb and bombers weren't anticipated for several

>>You seem to forget that Brazel showed strange wrekcage to his
>>neighbors, the Proctors and his other neighbors at the Wade
>>General Store in Corona on Saturday July 5. That is where he
>>heard about flying saucers and a reward for finding wreckage.

>>That is when it was suggested he go to the sherrif's office in
>>Roswell which he did on July 6.

>>Major Marcel examined the wreckage, told his boss and was sent
>>out to Brazel's ranch because there was so much of it. He was
>>told to take a CIC man with him. His worry was who was spying on
>>the 509th.

>>Are you really suggesting there was no strange wreckage in the
>>big debris field on the ranch? So everybody was lying including
>>the rancher, his son, Marcel and his son, the Proctors, the
>>people in Corona, the sheriff and his family?

>>Why was Brazel picked up on his ranch and brought back to town
>>and fed a new story by the Army?

>Nope, something was found and I am not disputing that, but if
>you are going to admit into evidence something was found on the
>Brazel ranch, you should not ignore the other "crashed saucers"
>that occurred at the same time as Roswell, you know the ones
>that were too small to hold alien bodies:

>- The one found July 7 by Norman Hargrave on a beach in Texas
>that was 20 inches in diameter. The one that allegedly had
>written on it: "Military secret of the United States of America
>Army Air Forces M 4330657. Anyone damaging or revealing
>description or whereabouts of this missile is subject to
>prosecution by the U.S. Government. Call collect at once LD446,
>Army Air Forces Depot, Spokane, Washington."  The same one that
>Hargrave then changes his mind about and says it was all a hoax.

>ET proponents readily chalk it up as a hoax but don't bother to
>ask themselves why the alleged message mentions Spokane,
>Washington instead of an Air Force Base in Texas? Or how would a
>businessman in Texas know enough about the AAF to know Spokane
>Army Air Forces Depot belonged to Twining's Air Material command
>(AMC)? The AMC in 1947 was responsible for research and
>development and logistics until 1950, when research and
>development was split off into a separate organization, the Air
>Research and Development Command.

>- The July 7 object that disintegrated over West Rindge, NH
>reported by E.A. Soucy, SAC of the FBI at Boston (probably the
>same Mr. Soucy who met or telephoned Hoyt Vandenberg on July 11
>per Vandenberg's Calendar).

>Soucy's report indicated that:

>"LITTLE BLAZES had been started on a green lawn.  Fires were
>apparently caused by metallic fragments which were turned over
>to (name deleted) of MIT...  (name deleted) has advised that
>their general (deleted) appearance are /sic/ similar to the
>lining of /V dash two/V-2 bombs, which he had observed at New
>Mexico. A metallurgist at MIT said it might have been from a jet
>turbo plane. At present time he is in process of analyzing two
>of these pieces. These scientists in roughly reconstructing the
>metallic object state it was approximately fourteen inches in
>diameter, three /2-/ sixteenths of an inch thick, and machine
>tooled, and some fragments indicated they were burned and
>SCOREOUT appeared to have been subjected to terrific heat.
>These scientists are treating this matter as classified
>information."  SOUCY

>Interesting that we have three "crashed saucers" all over the US
>on or prior to July 7. Two of the three are ignored by the ET
>Proponents or simply discounted.

Are you really suggesting that all UFO reports are connected
with all other reports? I don't think so. The amount of evidence
for Roswell is far larger than for the others. Listen to
Recollections Of Roswell.

>>Yes, I worked hard to find DuBose and meet with him.He took the
>>call from Ramey's boss general McMullen saying to get the press
>>off their backs, send wreckage up to Washington that day with
>>one of his Colonel couriers, and never talk about it again. I
>>had no idea what he would say.

>>Is this all fantasy and lies?

>Not at all. The "facts" fit just as well for my theory as they
>do for yours.

>>I had been lecturing about Flying Saucers since 1967. I didn't
>>need Roswell, or any story I couldn't back up with facts.

>>Stan Friedman

>You mean like the facts you ignored from the email I sent you
>about the whereabouts of Spaatz between July 7 - 11, 1947?
>Here's the article on my website to refresh your memory:


>Nothing like being in charge of the brand spanking new US Air
>Force and have not only a watershed event in human history occur
>on your watch while you are out fishing but then have your newly
>minted military service wet itself with an embarrassing news

Sorry, James, General Twining's daughter told me that Port
Aransas, Texas, was a favorite fishing haunt of USAF brass.
General Twining's pilot told me that fishing and hunting
expeditions were looked upon as very useful for open,
off-the-record discussions.

You haven't mentioned the articles clearly showing Twining's
involvment with Flying Saucers including on the front page of
the Roswell Daily Record on July 8 or his letter to Boeing on
July 17 noting that he had been unable to go there because of  a
very important matter that had come up... "been away quite a
bit". He was in New Mexico from July 7-11.

Yes, as was common on fast breaking stories there were
differences in detail in some of the press accounts.. just as
Haut's name was spelled 4 different ways.

Stan Friedman

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



These contents above are copyright of the author and
UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced
without the express permission of both parties and
are intended for educational use only.

[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp

Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com