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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Jun > Jun 4

Re: Dating Arnold

From: Don Ecsedy <don.nul>
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 10:13:29 -0400 (EDT)
Archived: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 08:45:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Dating Arnold

>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 08:50:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: Dating Arnold

>>From: Don Ecsedy <don.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 13:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
>>Subject: Re: Dating Arnold


>>It can be too easy to implicate Palmer. Arnold was not an
>>academic, and intellectual. His writing is casual,
>>conversational, and expressive, on occasion hyperbolic. Taken
>>flatly, literally, some things he wrote are absurd. His
>>expressiveness is not 'cosmopolitan', but regional and local,
>>and also specialized to his career and interests. He is innocent
>>of irony. He seems to have been unaware of it and seems to have
>>spent most of his life conversing with people pretty much like


>That's an excellent, perceptive characterization of Arnold's
>personality as I and others were able to observe it.

>In the years I worked at Fate magazine, I often had occasion to
>discuss Ray Palmer with Curt and Mary Fuller. They knew him
>well, and their assessment of him was an unflattering one. They
>told me that Palmer's hand was apparent in much of the content
>of Fate in the late 1940s, including in material by-lined by
>others (either Palmer pseudonyms or the names of actual people),
>and that much of it was fictionalized or at least exaggerated.
>(Co-owner Curt Fuller, a formally educated journalist and a
>conscientious editor, was seldom in the office because he was
>busy editing Flying and taking care of two small children while
>Mary was confined to a TB sanatorium.)

>When I checked, I found that the back-up files for the Fate of
>the late 1940s were missing. The Fullers thought Palmer had
>probably taken them with him when he moved to Wisconsin in the
>early 1950s. Thus, documentation of the Palmer-Arnold
>relationship from this crucial period is unavailable. We do,
>however, know something of the dynamics of that relationship.

>In matters literary (using the adjective in the broadest sense),
>Arnold, who knew nothing of writing and publishing, relied
>entirely on Palmer's assurances and left such to him, often to
>his own detriment. In the time I spent with Arnold in 1977 and
>in contacts in later years (he died in 1984), I noticed that
>virtually his entire understanding of the UFO phenomenon, his
>own experience aside, came from Palmer, delivered orally. He not
>once referred to other UFO chroniclers. He wasn't a reader, and
>he wasn't monitoring Palmer as, clearly, he ought to have.

>In the vanished social world in which Arnold lived, a man's word
>was his bond, and that was it. Unfortunately, in the larger
>world, those constraints didn't apply to Palmer or Crisman or
>Dahl, ready, willing, and able to exploit Arnold's lack of
>cynicism, irony, or inability to detect deception.


Approaching the matter of Kenneth Arnold from the direction of
the Rhodes case, my first encounter with Arnold is in room 502
of the Winthrop in Tacoma with Brown and Davidson telling him
about photographs from Phoenix.

I have to admit to being non-plussed by the relationship between
Arnold and the agents and, with a degree of separation, Colonel
Springer, and also Velma Brown. I'd come to expect agents to
maintain a distance, anonymity, when investigating those
reporting sightings.

It is one reason not to immediately ascribe everything Arnold
wrote about Tacoma that is inexplicable or 'mysterious' as the
work of Palmer.

As well, Brown and Davidson were pilots. They would have an
opinion of Arnold's Cascades sighting and his estimates.

Can you refer to me to an article or book that examines this
aspect of the Arnold story?

Best Regards,


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