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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Jun > Jun 12

Re: Contacts Abductions & Convictions

From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:28:35 +0100
Archived: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:05:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Contacts Abductions & Convictions

>From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:54:26 +0200
>Subject: Re: Contacts Abductions & Convictions

>>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:01:22 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Contacts Abductions & Convictions


>>So, if Vallee, Hynek, Keel, and Jacobs are right about the
>>history of 'abductions' and 'interventions', what does that say
about the methods (probably non-humane), and the motives
(possibly non-human) of our leaders?

>> I.e. whose interests are they likely to be serving?

>Ray and List,

>I have not followd this thread, but I just read this message and
>I strongly disagree with it. Firstly, how can you put together
people as different as Vallee and Jacobs? Their views on ufos,
and even more on abductions, are practically opposite. In
addition to that, I don't agree at all with your opinion that
individuals most prone to attack and subversion by 'entities' are
those without strong ethics, etc. What about Betty and Barney
Hill, Travis Walton and so many others, to begin with? Or maybe
you are not considering abductions?

Hi Gildas,

I can understnd your pain, because, from reading earlier works
and statements, had also thought that those people had
distinctly different hard'n'fast views. Turns out I was wrong;
they had/have all come around by various routes to the
'trickster' element in close encounters (and visitations - for
some). Indeed, Hynek, Keel and Vallee later identified apparent
non-corporeality in some cases. Also, from their separate
experiences and case files, they have each warned of
'subversion' - tricksters leading people astray.

As far as your first problem with definitions goes, the evidence
is that Betty and Barney Hill, Travis Walton etc were/are highly
ethical people - and as a matter of fact I personally find that
most working folk, around the world, also have the same strong
system of ethics (although if questioned they might put local
'family' or 'religion' labels on it). I.e. you don't need to be
a bishop or a professional philosopher to have strong ethics.

Your second problem is with the 'subversion' bit - there is _no_
evidence that Betty and Barney Hill, Travis Walton etc were
tempted into the trap (described by John Keel and acknowleged by
others), of serving the apparent interests of tricksters by way
of 'disciples' and 'prophecy' etc. As Keel noted, although
'subverted' folk might be strangely successful at first,
nevertheless that always seems to lead to public and personal

While from the little I've seen of recordings of Betty and Barney
Hill, Travis Walton etc, although they were clearly shocked by
the pressures of publicity and controversy, each of them finally
emerged with their personalities intact and indeed with a large
measure of dignity.

Ethical is as ethical does.


Ray D

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