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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > Mar > Mar 4

Re: Sampling Earth's Biodiversity

From: J. Maynard Gelinas <j.maynard.gelinas.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 07:53:39 +0800
Archived: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:27:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Sampling Earth's Biodiversity


I'd just like to offer an addendum to this post, as I wrote it
right after waking up and was somewhat groggy. As a side note,
I've just moved within the last two weeks from Boston to Perth,
Australia and my sleep schedule is still pretty hosed.

>Hi William,

>>From: William Treurniet <wtreurniet.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 10:51:25 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Sampling Earth's Biodiversity

>>>From: J. Maynard Gelinas<j.maynard.gelinas.nul>
>>>To: post.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 08:57:56 +0800
>>>Subject: Re: Sampling Earth's Biodiversity

>>>>From: Michael Tarbell<mtarbell.nul>
>>>>To: post.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:17:00 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: Sampling Earth's Biodiversity


>>>Thanks for your lengthy and cogent counter-arguments. I'll do my
>>>best to defend the initial work, but must admit that your
>>>comment forced a lengthy re-think, which is exactly what
>>>discussion of this sort ought to do. Rock on!


>>>And that's why
>>>genetic programming and directed evolution represent a likely
>>>means toward deriving useful complex designs. Once you accept
>>>this perspective, the only question is whether building 'toy'
>>>ecosystems, or using naturally evolved systems, are better means
>>>to seek out novel solutions to very difficult problems.

>>The naturally evolving system adapts to the environment it is
>>in. So if the earth ecosystem is being used as a laboratory to
>>work out a new biological system for ETs to use, this new system
>>would only be suitable for living on earth, would it not?
>>Anywhere else, the environment would be different and thus,
>>unsuitable for the new system.

>No, I don't think so. All models are incomplete simulations of a
>target environment. Were they fully complete, one would simply build a
>large series of full scale prototypes. What the model offers is an
>opportunity to build out a series of 'toy' prototypes very cheaply,
>and then use aspects of the results in the final product based on a
>series of assumptions built into the simulation. However, there is
>always accepted drift from simulated to final real-world results.
>Monte Carlos are a prime example of this.


>>What this means, then, is that using the earth as a laboratory
>>for an evolutionary experiment would make sense only if the
>>result were to be applied on earth. If the Martians had done
>>this, the War of the Worlds would have turned out quite

>From this perspective, as I noted, the simulated model is the real
>world design - which would make it a prototype and not a model.

It occurs to me that, for space-ship design, if one were to
discover an ecosystem of naturally evolved space faring life,
that might make for a more suitable ecosystem to use for
simulation modeling. In that event, your criticism would be
spot-on. It's a pretty outlandish suggestion, but one I've
proposed on prior posts to this list. So for completeness, I
thought I ought to at least openly recognize it as a counter.



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