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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2012 > May > May 21

Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 06:25:34 -0400 (EDT)
Archived: Mon, 21 May 2012 06:46:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told


>From: James Carrion <james_carrion.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 10:46:53 -0600
>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:25:24 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

>>>From: Kathy Kasten <catraja.nul>
>>>To: <post.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 19:29:52 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - The Greatest Lie Ever Told

<snip>

>When have I ever claimed that UFOs do not exist?

>My research is focused on 1947, specifically the period that
>covers Maury Island, Kenneth Arnold and Roswell. What happened
>before and what happened after is not within my scope of
>research as unlike most Ufologists and believers, I don't throw
>all the evidence in one large multi-millennium bucket from which
>one tries to explain the phenomenon.

>So don't call me dishonest in my approach, rather it is focused.
>If I can prove that Maury Island, Kenneth Arnold and Roswell
>were part of the same Cold War deception operation, well, you
>still have what came before and came after to hang on to. I am
>not trying to convince you or anyone else whose mind is already
>made up on this subject. I doubt that even if the Government
>came out and fessed up to their Cold War deception, that you
>would believe it - instead you would probably claim that surely
>it has to be another ploy of the "cover up".

>Calling my opinions worthless sounds like something that would
>normally fall out of the mouth of Phil Klass or the folks over
>at CSI.

>Jerry labeled me a Conspiracy Theorist, Dave Morton a fool, and
>you are calling me a liar. I venture none of you have even read
>my paper on the Project Seal disinformation campaign from June
>1947 two weeks prior to Maury Island/Kenneth Arnold, nor could
>you offer any sort of explanation for it because it doesn't fit
>within your UFO view.

>Labels mean nothing, hard evidence means everything. COINTELPRO
>would still be a conspiracy theory today if the Citizens'
>Commission to Investigate the FBI did not break into the FBI
>field office in Media, Pennsylvania, and expose the program by
>passing the information to news agencies. Even then, many news
>organizations initially refused to publish the information.

>I can't wait to see what you will label me next.

>James

My attribution of you was correct because you stated a theory -
a fantastic theory - without providing any evidence.

Additionally, the title of your piece begins "Flying
Saucers..." - not "The Flying Saucers of June 1947."

The implication is "(All) Flying Saucers" - not a subset of
flying saucer reports.

That's how the English language works.

The word "All" is implied by you in your subject.

If we add "All" and some clarification, we have "All Flying
Saucers Are A Lie - the Greatest Lie Ever Told."

You asked:

"When have I ever claimed that UFOs do not exist?"

Well, if you meant "flying saucers" rather than "UFOs",
you just stated it: "...The Greatest Lie Ever Told."

You're claiming that they're just a lie, and therefore don't
exist in reality. That's when you claimed that they don't exist.
"Lie" = "Imaginary". "Imaginary" = "They don't exist".

So, in effect, you were saying "All Flying Saucers are a Lie -
the Greatest Lie Ever Told, Therefore They Don't Exist."

Your question has now been answered.

You stated above "...hard evidence means everything."
Very true. You haven't supplied any for your theories.

You talk about the CIA, then later about Project Seal. Somehow
we're supposed to figure out for ourselves how Project Seal
meant that the June '47 saucers were some kind of hoax, and that
there never were any real saucers.

I'm slow, James. Spell it out for me.

You've come up with a better theory involving the CIA and
Project Seal - a secret project cancelled in January of 1945,
and revealed in 1947.

I don't see the connection, but it's an interesting theory, and
I'd like to understand it.

I need to see the evidence and methodology, because I don't
understand the mechanism.

I'd also be interested in finding out how many Soviet spies were
captured by this disinformation ploy. Names and dates, please.

You will also need to address David Rudiak's reading of the
telegram in General Ramey's hand - work completed in 2001.
Explain it, please.

How is it that we can clearly read "FORT WORTH, TEX", "VICTIMS
OF THE WRECK", "DISK", and "WEATHER BALLOONS"? This was the
Roswell incident - one of your specialties, and the photo was
taken on July 8th, 1947 in General Ramey's office at Fort Worth,
Texas (Fort Worth Army Airfield).

Was this a fake telegram planted by the CIA, intended for
revelation decades after the June '47 saucer flap, but not to be
believed, and seen as more evidence for a cover-up so we could
flush out Soviet spies in 2001, even though news of Rudiak's
telegram reading didn't make the mainstream news, and thus had
no clear-text from which to start a decryption of Soviet code,
as far as we know? What's the explanation?

You will also need to discredit all Roswell reports - from Mack
Brazel forward. Every single statement ever made from June '47
forward to the present day, by people who were involved in the
incident, including those who didn't see the debris or the
bodies, but spoke with or saw the people involved, or were
somehow connected to it - including General Vandenberg, General
Ramey's wife, Major Marcel, Marcel's son, etc.

We end up with something like this:


"All Flying Saucers Are A Lie - The Greatest Lie Ever
Told, Therefore They Don't Exist.

The CIA sent out fake stories of UFOs to capture Soviet spies.
Furthermore, Project Seal in New Zealand was somehow involved,
and the CIA captured more spies. I won't tell you who they
caught or how they caught them. All the stories of June '47
involving flying saucers were fake stories planted by the CIA.
All the interviews of people supposedly involved were fake, even
up to the present day. They all lied and continue to lie. Any
photographs of saucers are fakes. The telegram in General
Ramey's hand was a fake, printed out and handed to him by a CIA
agent. I won't tell you how they did it because it's a secret.
Furthermore, flying saucers don't exist. I know they don't exist
just because."

James, please answer ALL these questions, in this forum.


Dave Morton



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