From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 14:20:30 -0700 Archived: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 17:39:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Socorro Again >From: Viktor Golubic <Diverge247.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 16:59:43 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: Socorro Again >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: post.nul >>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:47:19 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Socorro Again >>>From: Viktor Golubic <Diverge247.nul> >>>To: post.nul >>>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:29:39 -0400 (EDT) >>>Subject: Re: Socorro Again >>>>From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul> >>>>To: <post.nul> >>>>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:09:19 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: Socorro Again ><snip> >>You can also look at other locations to see if the nearby >>mountains had any obvious effect on the wind pattern. E.g., >>Alamogordo has very close and prominent mountains to the EAST, >>and the same for Albuquerque (to the east and north). We would >>expect these to generate an easterly component as the cooler >>mountain air flowed down into the lowlands to the west. But this >>is NOT evident from the recorded wind directions. Again, what we >>see is the local winds being totally dominated by the large- >>scale circulation of the low pressure system. Again, my multi- >>state wind map, April 24, 1964: I have since added to the above wind records, which now include 14 weather stations in New Mexico and 20 overall, N.M. and nearby. New wind weather map: http://www.roswellproof.com/Wind_map_NOAA_data_sm.jpg The closest station I have found is Stallion Station Army Air Field on the north edge of White Sands Missile Range, only 21 miles from the Socorro sighting. Winds were out of the south to SSW in the hours from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m, bracketing the Socorro sighting at about 5:50 p.m. The next two closest stations were at Truth or Consequences (60 miles south) and Albuquerque (75 miles north), winds SSW to SW (T or C) and S to SSW (Alb.). Judging by the recorded nearby winds and the general CCW circulation pattern, I stated that the best guess wind direction at the time in Socorro were probably out of the SSW. Add to this Zamora said the blustery winds were out of the SSW to SW at the time, Hynek likewise writing that his questioning of various people (not just Zamora) indicated that the wind was out of the south, or maybe the SW in another of his letters. However, the winds needed to "blow" the Socorro object to the WSW (according to four different landmarks named by Lonnie Zamora including the very prominent nearby mine at the base of the mountains and a canyon to the WSW) would have had to be out of the ENE. No such weather station anywhere remotely near Socorro had such winds, in fact one would have to go hundreds of miles to the north to pick up such strong easterly winds in the powerful, low pressure, counter-clockwise circulating air pattern that was present at the time. The map says it all. Now to Viktor's response to my email of 3 weeks ago. >I missed your reply... >Since no one had pointed out the effects of local topography, I >felt is necessary to introduce this topic. What is interesting >about Socorro is not only the proximity of the mountain but the >valley directly west. <snip> >>This leaves the incredibly unlikely possibility that somehow the >>wind practically reversed direction only in the Socorro area, >>overcoming a large multi-state low pressure circulation pattern. >>Please tell us where this incredible source of easterly winds >>was supposed to come from Socorro if the mountains were actually >>to the west? >Downward circulating air from a mountain can spiral on a axis >horizontal to the ground and backward. And this was why I paused >to consider this as plausible. >>Well so far all I see is that nothing fits. Just a lot of >>handwaving conjecture and nothing of any substance anywhere. >No, my point was that a proper analysis of the wind's behavior >was not fully taken under consideration which I have added to >recently. Viktor, what you added to recently is here: http://www.ufoupdateslist.com/2012/aug/m19-007.shtml In which you wrote: "Since there was no recorded wind data available in Socorro for the day in question, publicly from the NWS or privately from the NCDC, I proceeded to find days between early 2010 and late 2011 at the Socorro Municipal Airport that had regional surface pressure patterns similar to those observed on the day in question from the 4/24/1964 sighting." <snip> "Having completed some data analysis with similar pressure surface patterns as was shown by David Rudiak on the day of Lonnie's sighting, it does appear that a balloon could not have been involved with the Socorro sighting, thus reducing the probability on the UNM prank hypothesis considerably: The proximity of the mountain range/valley does not appreciably affect the counterclockwise wind pattern generated by the regional surface pressure pattern NW of Socorro New Mexico (Low), other than to channel them to a more pronounced Northerly direction." Or in other words, adding in data specifically from Socorro doesn't really change anything given what we already knew from existing wind records at the time. A hoax "balloon" can be ruled out on this alone, plus other reported details, such as the object disappearing at high speed in a STRAIGHT, HORIZONTAL, unbobbing line just above ground level all the way to the mountains. What real-world "balloon" can fly like this, even ignoring the wind direction being totally wrong? David Rudiak Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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