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Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:10:46 +0100
Archived: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 10:03:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away


>From: Dave Haith <visions1.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 09:48:44 +0100
>Subject: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away - Cox

<snip>

>I am posting the below from researcher Colin Andrews -
>colinandrews415.nul - who wrote it in an email to me.

>He doesn't subscribe to this List but at my suggestion is happy
>for me to post it here on his behalf

Thanks, Dave, it gives me the opportunity to clear up a few
important things. No doubt there will be hysterical squeals of
horror that I am acting as Dave Clarke's shill again, but ho-
hum.

>From Colin Andrews

>---

>My genuine belief is that Clarke is on the pay-roll or he had
>already a fixed view he was able to reinforce that UFOs don't
>exist. The 'missing' documents is what this story should be all
>about and to be honest, there are serious researchers who hold
>the evidence that this is one big farce by the MOD. Left
>uncoordinated its not known or visible to the public.

There's a big difference between "on the pay-roll" and "already
[holding] a fixed view". Dave Clarke's views about unidentified
flying objects are well known, and mirror my own - UFOs exist.
There is no single all-encompassing explanation for UFOs.

As for him being on "the payroll" he has responded to that
allegation many times, and I can confirm that his lifestyle
doesn't reflect a massive secret income.

>For my part, four cases that I have personal involvement and
>knowledge:
>
>1: The strange orb seen next to Army helicopters near crop
>circle at Alton Barnes and captured on video. There was an
>'official' investigation by no less than the head of UK ground
>forces at Wilton. That case was NOT released. Why and where is
>it?

I'm not sure who or what is "the head of UK ground forces at
Wilton"? Perhaps you mean the Commander-in-chief of UK land
forces (assuming it took place between 1972 and 1995)? I very
much doubt that such a senior officer would have personally
investigated such a trivial sounding incident, though it is
entirely possible that a more junior officer from that formation
did. However, it is also possible that the details of any local
investigation did not reach the MoD UFO desk. With more
information, it might be worth submitting a targeted FoIA
request, though I don't know what the retention policy of UKLF
was, and it has undergone major organisational changes over the
years.

>2. In 1986 Mr and Mrs Jack Collins called 999 when they
>witnessed a large UFO over Stockbridge Downs, Hampshire. Police
>units from Andover and Stockbridge were called to that location
>and I also witnessed this (I had scanner in my car). The police
>had to have submitted an official report to the MOD which then
>was normal procedure. Where is that report also?

To quote our intelligent chum Nick Pope from an interview with
the UK UFO magazine in the Juy/August 1996 edition and included
in the released file DEFE24/1991-1, pages 215-218):

"...Another factor was there was simply a lack of knowledge in
the system. The national reporting system had broken down; in
theory any reports that were military based or presented to
civil airports or police, those reports should have been
filtered to Sec(AS)2a. That was happening in some areas but in
others it was not, simply because people are posted in and out
quite rapidly, and in the 'hand-over' various things get lost.
What I'm saying is that some people didn't realise that they
were supposed to report their sightings...."

"...However, it's a mistake to think of the MoD or the Air Force
as a single entity, whereby all the procedures are laid down and
fully documented. These organisations are huge - they are
bureaucracies and in a bureaucracy sometimes the centre loses
controls of the arms. It's possible that on a local level, some
Community Relations Officer might learn of a report. The
official might say, this sounds like fun and check the incident
out. They might have a personal interest, or might simply be
keen to show an interest for PR reasons. The Services need to
maintain a close relationship with the local community. It
doesn't happen often, but it's possible. I am certainly aware of
one RAF officer who informed me that he visited a UFO witness
simply because he lived so close to the base..."

Again, a targeted FoIA request to the relevant constabulary may
yield something, though it will depend on their retention
policy, and I have found some police forces to be unhelpful in
their responses in the past.

>3. The very first line submitted in an official AAC report from
>Crnl Edgecombe to the MOD about the set of crop circles at
>Longstock in 1985 that they investigated from the air included
>his questioning could this be caused by UFO..... I have a copy
>of that document, given to me in confidence from Edgecombe
>personally (he lived near me in Andover) and that too is missing
>in the official release. Why and where is it?

You refer to an Army Air Corps report - again this may not have
been sent to the MoD and a targeted FoIA request my be
worthwhile.

>4. I was present at a surveillance project with Nippon TV when
>during early hours a bright light suddenly appeared to the east
>of the location. One of the crew flashed a bright light towards
>it and it flashed back and also increased brilliance. The crew
>member flashed twice and three times and it repeated that
>sequence. I called West Drayton ATC from the site and asked for
>radar confirmation of aircraft in the area. I was told there
>were none and only two aircraft were in British air space at
>that moment. I asked if it possible for the two craft to
>extinguish lights, not anticipating they would but to my
>surprise both aircraft agreed to turn both internal and external
>lights off for 20 seconds to eliminate them for certain. The UFO
>remained flashing and pulsing for several more minutes. NIPPON
>have the footage and I along with a dozen others are witness to
>this. ATC job was to submit an official report about that
>incident. Where is it?

To be fair, ATC's job is to manage aviation traffic within UK
airspace. Reporting to the MoD is not their main function. From
their perspective, they had an anecdotal report of something
flying around which didn't show on their radar and for which
they had no evidence other than a phone call. Technically, they
should have forwarded the information to the MoD, but they may
have been disinclined to bother with the paperwork or unaware of
the procedure.

>By the way, this will be in my new book - On The Edge Of Reality
>- to be published next month.

>And that's just what I can vouch personally.

>We know that what Clarke has said is BS. He is either extremely
>gullible or has had the real material pulled away from him. If
>the real documents were already withdrawn before he was given
>access, which I believe is what Nick Pope is suggesting, then
>Clarke is at least being truthful as far as what he has seen is
>concerned. If what he saw was the bullshit then he could only
>conclude it as such.

None of the reports you list above seem especially significant
or revealing, or substantially different from many other reports
which have been released in the files - why would they be in the
"real" files?

>A well organized UFO research group should start a project to
>pull these reports together and publish them and ask the MOD to
>give an explanation, Clarke too should be asked about these
>reports. They have my four to start with.

Well, I have responded to your four reports. If anyone can
provide evidence (perhaps in the form of a reply from the UFO
desk) that a report was definitely submitted to the MoD UFO desk
but hasn't appeared in the released files, I for one would be
very interested in seeing it.

There are files which the MoD claim have been lost or destroyed.
There are also a few of which ONLY redacted versions survive. To
a large extent, there is a lot of duplication between the UFO
desk files and the DI55 files, so some of the gaps can be filled
in. I don't like the fact that the MoD have been so careless
with files which should have been safeguarded under the Public
Records Act, and can fully understand why some people may be
suspicious that the missing records contain something of
significance. Unfortunately we will never know for certain
whether they did or not, but based on the files so far released,
I sincerely doubt that there would have been any smoking guns, a
view clearly expressed by our intelligent chum Nick Pope on many
occasions, for example:

http://ufos.about.com/od/currentuforeports/a/popeinterview_2.htm

"Mr. Booth: Do you feel that governments secreting UFOs files is
the right thing to do, considering the possible negative
ramifications on world economy, religion, and political and
social structure?

Mr. Pope: The answer depends on what information governments are
withholding. I can only speak with authority on the situation
with regard to the British government. We don't have what I call
a 'spaceship in a hangar smoking gun' - i.e. any absolute proof
that UFOs are extraterrestrial."

Another question which I would put to those who believe there
was a parallel unit investigating UFOs in the UK - where would
they get their information from? All the official procedures
instructed police, the CAA, and the armed forces to report them
to the UFO desk - how would people know where to report the
"real" sightings to, and how to decide which reporting channel
to use?

There are some documents which I believe are being retained
without good reason, most of them authored by or referring to
our intelligent chum Nick Pope who demanded that they must not
be released citing Data Protection and Human Rights legislation
-
now what, I wonder, is he hiding?

Regards,

Joe



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