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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2013 > Nov > Nov 8

Re: "Thought" Definition

From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 20:12:29 -0000
Archived: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 05:19:49 -0500
Subject: Re: "Thought" Definition


>From: Jason Gammon <boyinthemachine.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 14:31:26 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: Re: "Thought" Definition

>>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 12:52:10 -0000
>>Subject: Re: "Thought" Definition

<snip>

>>As you've admitted, the 'upload' or 'translation' of a
>>personality copy into a machine of some sort is just a way of
>>committing suicide, as far as the human is concerned. You can't
>>copy neuron patterns and their electron fields without
>>destroying the original.

>Not true or quasi-true. Our primitive technology would require
>the brain to be sliced into thin slices which are then scanned.
>So this would imply the person is deceased. However, in the
>scenario I described, where a thin, metallic rod holding a
>bb-like object at the end which is then inserted into the brain
>and which 'hatches' and grows filaments which connect to the
>neurons, does not require the death of the host. There would be
>minor side-effects, such as nose bleeds, migraines, and possibly
>seizures, but any death from such would be extremely rare. All
>in all these side-effects are a very minor price to pay for
>immortality.

<snip>

Hi Jason,

Am fairly certain your 'filament growing' operation couldn't
actually determine the state - i.e. 'personality' or 'character'
- of a brain.

In line with quantum theory the state of a particle can only be
determined by 'querying' it (by firing photons of high or low
energy at it). And you'd have to query every particle in the
brain to make a copy of its owner's personality.

Scientist generally seem to agree that, although we can't do it
now, it _might_ be possible, in the distant future to use that
method of copying for teleportation (or for your 'uploading').

However the big problem is that querying a particle, to find its
spin, charge or momentum, also destroys that information in the
original particle (because even low-energy photons give a 'kick'
to the particle).

Which is why teleportation (or copying) would destroy the
original.

And even your gentler-sounding 'filament growing' procedure
suffers from the same problem, because the filament has to gain
its information by way of photons.

(All the energy and info we get from the physical world is via
photons. That is, King Charles' neck never came into contact
with an atomic nucleus of the axe which chopped his head off -
if it had there would have been a small 'nuclear' explosion.
That beheading was achieved by photons interacting between outer
electrons of both neck and axe.)

So, as your 'filament' worked its way through the brain checking
the state of particles it would be leaving behind a trail of
total wreckage - loss of information.

As for the rest of your argument, I don't see any change.

However, if in the distant future we establish that the 'mind'
is not a physical instantiation (in brain cells or neurons) but
that it exists non-locally in the quantum field of the brain,
which might be indicated by modern visual experiments - see
Duggins et al (incidentally maybe explaining a great many
hitherto inexplicable cases of apparent telepathy etc.), then
that _might_ be cause for suggesting that the complete 'quantum
bundle' of a mind or personality could be transmitted any
(arbitrary) distance instantaneously to a suitable receiver.

Warning - Newtonian-trained physicists (the vast majority) are
convinced that such 'quantum mind transportation' is merely a
form of magic and would violently reject the idea.

However it's an attractive concept, if only for the very large
number of different 'paranormal' phenomena it would explain.

BTW - You can see I've just balanced and opposed your
'materialist' idea of the mind with a non-material concept
(quantum field) - which might be unavailable and unacceptable to
a machine-body.


Cheers

Ray D




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