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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2013 > Nov > Nov 16

Re: "Thought" Definition

From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:47:05 -0000
Archived: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 11:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: "Thought" Definition


>From: Jason Gammon <boyinthemachine.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 01:23:03 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: Re: "Thought" Definition

>>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 20:12:29 -0000
>>Subject: Re: "Thought" Definition

<snip>

>>BTW - You can see I've just balanced and opposed your
>>'materialist' idea of the mind with a non-material concept
>>(quantum field) - which might be unavailable and unacceptable
>>to a machine-body.

<snip>

>The technology does not require the identification of the state
>of of a photon anymore than it requires the death of the host.
>Think of it like a phone tap. In a phone tap a third party is
>able to receive the information without hindering the
>information from traveling to the proper party.
<snip>

Hi Jason,

a) Just for fun - let's accept your premise of a material basis
of 'mind'. The human, with only a material mind, whether any
attempt is made at copying or not, will die at some stage. For
the material-minded human the death experience must be real -
and final. I.e. that human would know nothing more.

Any putative mind-copy (or simulation) inhabiting a machine-body
would be a new 'personality' and go on to develop in ways we
have no knowledge of. In fact, from the very first minute or so,
it would be an alien species.

b) Now let's examine the present evidence for saying that the
mind is more than the sum of its material brain-cells. Some of
the evidence of non-locality (the probable existence of the mind
in the quantum field _around_ the brain) is provided by Duggins
et al at:

http://www.isc.cnrs.fr/FPAR.htm#Duggins

"... Visual consciousness must then be considered non-local and
inseparable: the microconsciousness does not exist".

As sort-of confirmation, that non-local quantum field also seems
to be used by plants (for near 100% photosynthesis efficiency),
insects (for bees' navigation and geo-communication) and maybe
most other animals (navigation etc. again), which is a strong
indication that an organic living 'mind' is needed to access it.

BTW - there seems to be a possibility that the immaterial 'mind'
or 'consciousness' existing in the quantum field could be
immortal! Note: I found that to be unbelievable when first
presented with the idea some years ago - reading John W Dunne's
remarkable book 'The Serial Universe'. It makes a good case for
a form of immortality for an observing consciousness, regardless
of the apparent 'death' of its material body and brain. I've
read and re-read the book and can't find an obvious flaw in his
reasoning (however, be warned - it needs some mental
gymnastics).

And here's the latest assertion, as reported in the
'Independent', which comes at it from a slightly different angle:

http://tinyurl.com/lq3jxbk

"Is there an afterlife? The science of biocentrism can prove
there is, claims Professor Robert Lanza"


Cheers

Ray D



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